tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post7788635552390364765..comments2019-08-11T10:01:26.564-07:00Comments on Hill Place: The Hypocrisy and Elitism of "Knots Landing"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-73473166268159246192016-07-18T11:45:59.237-07:002016-07-18T11:45:59.237-07:00To start off my comment, I must tell you that I do...To start off my comment, I must tell you that I do not agree with everything you have said. I do prefer Knots Landing to Dallas, but I must say that I have never boasted that Knots was “The Best”. Even if I did try to argue that, not everyone will agree (and I don't expect them to, either). Dallas was undoubtedly the most popular of the 1980s prime time soaps, but that, also, doesn't automatically make it “The Best”. Not in my book at least. It was simply the first and got all the viewers glued in before the others started. <br /><br />I do agree where you have said the first four seasons of Knots Landing were perhaps the most consistently “realistic”. However, even though the show did glamorize itself (I admit it), it did it very gradually, and not at all to the extreme Dallas did around 1984, when it became threaten by Dynasty (which finally surpassed Dallas in the ratings). The photo you have of the main cast is not their every episode wardrobe; in fact, it's very far from it. I'd say that the majority of the characters wear casual clothes, maybe some “fancier” stuff at work or while out on the town, but that is not the typical look of the Knots Landing cast. <br /><br />Dallas got repetitive. It was almost always about oil, the control of Ewing Oil, J.R.'s dirty dealings, Bobby's love life with some woman (and their problems), Cliff trying to best J.R. (and vice versa), and every so often one of the ladies would have a story (and yes, they got repetitive, too). Dynasty, too, repeated itself. Alexis was always after Blake, Krystle was always so innocent, and Blake couldn't figure if he was bad or good. Knots Landing, however, did very well with “evolving” their characters. Take Valene, for example. She started out naive, uneducated, and insecure. Through her marriages, given birth, and all the other turbulence she found herself involved in, she gradually became an independent woman. Look at Karen. After Sid died, she mourned him, then gradually fell in love with Mack, and later found she good be successful in business. Even Abby changed. When she first arrived, she was just a neighborhood troublemaker before becoming more powerful, but even then she found time to deal with the problems that faces her marriages and children. <br /><br />I refuse to agree that Knots Landing stopped telling realistic stories. Take Valene's twins story. Babies do get kidnapped (it's fairly common), and studies show that people do deal with traumas like that in different ways; Valene, as we know, developed a multiple personality disorder. Look at Abby's story revolving around Olivia's addiction to drugs. She locked her in and came in on her (the opposite of what “tough love” says you should do). And take Laura's death as another example. The whole subtle way she told Karen, and they way Greg reacted, were totally realistic. Even her goodbye episodes (ep.200 and 201) were very poignant, and everyone's reaction to her demise was quite realistic... and most of the major characters were there. <br /><br />In conclusion, I'm not meaning to knock Dallas (or any of the others) in favor of putting Knots Landing on a pedestal. What a viewer likes to watch will determine which of the soaps he/she will prefer, if any. Different people have different tastes; no two people, I'm pretty sure, don't like all the same stuff. And let me just say, Knots Landing was the most “realistic” of the “Big Four” from its era. It reflected and changed with the times, instead of defining them. Belflowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617184156132950586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-45197598094957447892016-07-18T10:47:24.451-07:002016-07-18T10:47:24.451-07:00I must say that Knots Landing is my favorite of th...I must say that Knots Landing is my favorite of the "Big Four" soaps from the 1980s, but I have never said it was "The Best". Dallas was undoubtedly the most popular, but that doesn't make it the best. I must say I prefer Knots Landing over Dallas, but each show (no matter what it may be) has its following, and every show has those fans that think "their" show is the best. <br /><br />Anyways, I agree the early years of Knots Landing were arguably the most realistic. However, even when the should did "glamorize" itself, you must admit that it didn't become as glamorous as Dynasty, Falcon Crest, or even Dallas for that matter. Dallas, around 1984, was so threatened by Dynasty that they tried their best to make their show more glitzy, and most of their "attempts" weren't too successful. Knots Landing had several "reality" stories after Season 5. I think Val's twins story was very good, and yes, very realistic. Babies do get kidnapped, and studies show that different people deal with traumas of that short in different ways; Val, as we know, developed a multiple personality disorder. Fast-forward to Paige coming into Mack's life. Look at the back story we were given on a young Mack, Greg, and Anne; AND we weren't just told about it, we actually saw it! Olivia's drug addiction story was handled exceptionally well, and Abby's way of dealing with it was something I could see my own mother doing. The episodes dealing with Laura's death (those leading up to it, following it, etc.) are superb. Maybe it's not so "real" for someone to go away and die, but I do think everyone's reactions to her death were realistic; they felt genuine. <br /><br />As the previous "Unknown" poster stated, Dallas did get repetitive. It was always J.R. trying to over-throw Bobby, destroy Cliff, cheating on Sue Ellen, or just being J.R. There went his storylines, in one sentence. It was always about oil, the control of Ewing Oil, or some sort of business situation. That's at least 85% of the show. Dynasty, too, repeated itself; Alexis was always after Blake, Krystle was always goody-goody, and Blake couldn't decide whether he was nice or mean. Same story tactic recycled in slightly different ways. <br /><br />When talking about Knots Landing, however, I think it's fair to say that all of the characters on that show did evolve. Look at Val, for example. She started out this insecure, uneducated, naive girl from Texas, but through her marriages, giving birth, and all the turbulence that surrounding her, she became her own independent woman. Same with Karen. When Sid died, she mourned him, and gradually fell in love again. Even Abby, although primarily an ambitious woman, did find time to look out for her children. There is never really a "sameness" on Knots Landing. Almost everyone, all the time, seem to be growing in one way or another. <br /><br />In conclusion, I'm not trying to knock Dallas (or the others) in favor of Knots Landing. As I said earlier, I do prefer Knots Landing, but I do realize Dallas, Dynasty, and Falcon Crest as very good shows. Honestly, I think it all depends on what the viewer wants; what he/she likes will determine which of the four he/she will prefer, if any. ClassyCo97https://www.blogger.com/profile/14861829104492745133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-18727683731401396662016-02-26T01:56:05.615-08:002016-02-26T01:56:05.615-08:00Knots landing wasn't better because it was set...Knots landing wasn't better because it was set in LA. It was better because it was better. The writing was far superior to Dallas. (Dallas's topic every episode was oil, oil, oil, it got stale VEEY quickly.) <br />Soaps need the ramped up, outlandish, inconceivable, and yet somehow believable problems that knots landing delivered every season. Dallas never came close to that.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14903925189900702321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-32891371822891188212016-02-13T13:21:21.239-08:002016-02-13T13:21:21.239-08:00You've missed the point. "Knots Landing&q...You've missed the point. "Knots Landing" was supposed to be about drifters and misfits who struggled to find their directions in life through their ironic connections to each other and their community. When Val went crazy and had to leave the state to find herself, everyone had to re-examine his/her own trajectory in life. And the same thing when Sid died in early season 3.Joshua S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01868692772116376522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-61146951115616016702015-10-23T15:50:16.686-07:002015-10-23T15:50:16.686-07:00I think I was simply saying that, when it was less...I think I was simply saying that, when it was less glamorous, the show wasn't as popular as it became later when it went upscale. I thought it was contradictory that fans cite the middle-class aspect of the show as one of its strengths when the era that really highlighted it, the first three years, are seasons that most die-hard fans give short shrift. I wrote that three years ago, around the time I really started working on this blog, and there are some aspects of this piece I might do differently if I did it now. Thanks for your interest and for taking the time to read and comment on it. Hill Placehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13557647078598242244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-68810156310813117472015-10-23T10:48:46.021-07:002015-10-23T10:48:46.021-07:00I find some comments quite confused. You suggest t...I find some comments quite confused. You suggest that knots landing was unappealing to viewers in the early days due to 'mundane' storylines about surbibia in comparison to the lavishness of Dallas, yet your picture captions are quite scathing about the way in which in went in a more glamorous direction. Personally, I think there should have been more raw episodes like there were in the beginning before the silly, overly convoluted storylines kicked in. The Val's baby saga was good at first but descended into nonsense and the organised crime stories were mainly misplaced with too much emphasis on pointless characters like Ben. I agree that Franks's wife (pat?) was killed off too soon but the Frank got a lot of airtime, his job changed multiple times without explanation and there were whole episodes where he was front and centre of the action. The witness protection angle was an utter mess of a storyline and there were massive contradictions at every turn. KL did do brilliant baddies however, despite their usually short rein-Jill, Joshua, Chip etc. It was at its best when it was sinister and when Gary still had his uncontrollable vices. Rocky shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01918991830982870380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-49008961542494480912015-06-16T17:54:13.015-07:002015-06-16T17:54:13.015-07:00Someone is thinking WAY WAY too hard about somethi...Someone is thinking WAY WAY too hard about something that is just meant to be a bunch of glossy 80's OTT entertainment. Why must they be politically correct? Dallas, KL, FC Dynasty etc....were/are a form of escapism for us to indulge in for an hour when ever it took our fancy. Just take it for what it is. Entertainment . Sounds to me like you take life and yourself way too seriously. I enjoyed them all. I don't sit there thinking about how one is more "elitist" over the other. The irony is your own snobbery of taking shows like these as seriously as you do. When did these shows ever claim to be like that? They are NOT documentaries. They are Soap operas. Like I said a form of escapism for an hour a week, before we return to the real world.dejarenayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07409453941613445240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-65147465031053560202015-03-24T22:50:10.142-07:002015-03-24T22:50:10.142-07:00Yes, John Pleshette was amazing on the show. It wa...Yes, John Pleshette was amazing on the show. It was a great storyline. I hope he knows that he was appreciated.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165949539781966260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-2896073824438184362013-11-26T01:49:50.210-08:002013-11-26T01:49:50.210-08:00I've read your article several times and find ...I've read your article several times and find your comments interesting. I must confess that I am die-hard Knots Landing fan and I never got into the other soaps you mentioned. Thus, I can't comment on which one is "best". I've been re-watching Knots Landing online and am now up to the middle of season 8, so I've been able to see some of the developments you speak of. I did not find the early seasons "snooty" or "elitist" about focusing on the middle class. Instead, it seemed to me that they were striving to educate the audience about various social topics, such as alcoholism, medical issues and the environment. There are several episodes that I think would make excellent training videos.<br /><br />You're right that as the seasons progress, there are cosmetic changes, such as better clothes, hair and home decor, and the plots get more elaborate. However, I don't see these changes as having a profound effect on most of the characters. Aside from Gary, Abby and Greg, the other characters continue to live fairly typical day-to-day lives. For example, they cook their own meals, eat as a family, and do their own dishes (by hand!). Their children have chores and even their adult children are expected to be home at a reasonable hour. When the MacKenzies had everyone over for Thanksgiving, they had to corral tables and chairs from all over the house and had to put their sofa in the garage to have enough room for everyone. When they have people stay over, Michael and Eric often have to bunk together. A stark contrast in lifestyles can be seen in the episode where Michael is dealing with his drug possession charges. The night before his hearing, Karen insists on staying home and cooking his favourite meal, even though Mack wants to go out for Chinese food. Olivia, on the other hand, goes home to have her obligatory weekly dinner with Abby, and it is Maria the maid who welcomes her home and has prepared her favourite meal.<br /><br />You make much of the comments that the cast have made during their interviews. I haven't seen any of the ones you mention, so can't speak to them directly. I would only note that it is rare (if ever) that an actor or director will pan his/her work during an interview. Even the most trite drivel is often lauded as some magnificent masterpiece for one reason or another. I generally take such interviews with a grain of salt and chalk much of what is said up to the hyperbole of show business.<br /><br />While I would agree that Knots Landing was hardly representative, I do feel they did better than most shows in ensuring that people of colour are cast in professional roles (i.e., doctors, lawyers and nurses) rather than just menial ones. I did find it awkward how they introduced Eric's girlfriend, Whitney. It's clear the social commentary they were trying to make, but I think it fell flat by them not addressing it head-on.<br /><br />Thanks for a thought-provoking article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-40269139264182666192013-02-21T16:27:55.380-08:002013-02-21T16:27:55.380-08:00Thanks for your feedback. I really appreciate it....Thanks for your feedback. I really appreciate it. I agree with you regarding Val. I liked Val very much when she started on Dallas and in her first few years of Knots Landing. I just feel that, at some point, Joan Van Ark stopped playing Val and I sense she just started playing herself, with the neurosis and nervous mannerisms becoming far too much to take. <br /><br />I do agree Knots Landing is a good show with nuanced moments, but is it far better than Dallas just because it's purportedly more "realistic"? No way. I've gotten some negative feedback to my article from people who think I dislike Knots Landing and my skepticism is less with the show at times than it is with its followers, and with its participants, who try to elevate it to something it's not. <br /><br />If you haven't had a chance, check out my Falcon Crest article, written in January 2013. Hill Placehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13557647078598242244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-21397449654927389512013-02-21T16:21:04.683-08:002013-02-21T16:21:04.683-08:00This is a very well written piece, and there's...This is a very well written piece, and there's much I agree with. I come from what I think is an unusual perspective: I am generally NOT a fan of soaps. I have watch some Dallas and it's fine if soap opera is what you want. But KL is my sole exception to my usual preference against soaps. The reason? While KL is clearly soapish in some respects, it is more than that. It has some finely nuanced drama and a range of emotions not usually to be found in soaps, especially in my favorite seasons of 11 and 12.<br /><br />But having said those positive things, I do agree that the alleged down-to-earthness of KL is a bit exaggerated. As someone now middle-aged who grew up in a blue-collar family in a small agricultural town in Kentucky, I never found Knots Landing characters to be people I could particularly relate to. Maybe Val for the first few seasons, but she lost that humble quality. And the Ewings of Dallas are basically hicks who came into riches, which made them a little more down to earth relative to their wealth.<br /><br />Still, for the reasons cited above, KL is my favorite "continuing drama", and my sole viewing choice for that genre.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-64466643605657670482013-02-16T14:22:05.951-08:002013-02-16T14:22:05.951-08:00Thank you for this thoughtful piece. You make many...Thank you for this thoughtful piece. You make many good points. I "Knots Landing," yet I'm surprised by how much I agree with you. I don't necessarily find the show elitist, but I agree the writing and directing on "Dallas" holds up just as well as what I remember seeing on "Knots." You also make a great point about how "Knots Landing" lost its middle-class sensibilities as the series progressed (although I thought William Devane was a hoot and I welcomed the addition of Greg Sumner to the ensemble). More than anything, I think "Knots" is distinguished by its trio of well-written women characters -- Val, Karen and Abby -- although much of this is based on memory. I'd love to see the whole series again to see if if holds up as well as I remember.Chris B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-3102075274437417652013-02-12T20:01:41.456-08:002013-02-12T20:01:41.456-08:00I don't inherently disagree with you. I think...I don't inherently disagree with you. I think Knots Landing WAS a good show overall. I just dispute the allegations made by its participants, and some of its fans, that it was vastly superior to other prime time soaps and that its superiority was based in a middle-class setting that the show didn't always adhere to. Hill Placehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13557647078598242244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-11037930811109273092013-02-12T19:54:16.483-08:002013-02-12T19:54:16.483-08:00Even though the show moved away from its roots, it...Even though the show moved away from its roots, it still was, mostly, about middle class America. The lavish dresses and tuxedos worn by the cast in the bottom photo were uncommon. I think this photo was taken in season 7 when there was some kind of "charity ball" at Lotus Point. For the most part, Karen, Mack, Val, Ben, Laura, Lilimae, Joshua, Cathy, Olivia, Michael, Pat, and Frank wore casual clothes -- perhaps a suit or dress at work. Characters like Abby, Greg, Paige, and Anne were the ones with the lavish wardrobes who lived in the upper tier of society. I'm not saying that the other families weren't well off -- they certainly were. And the show did veer from its well-defined middle class roots. However, the change was, for the most part, gradual. To me, seasons 1 through 6 are the golden age of Knots Landing. Even though seasons 5 and 6 had more outlandish plotlines, it still had the same down-to-earth feeling of the first 4 seasons. Seasons 7 and 8 is when the show started to take a dip into the really, really soapy stuff. I still enjoyed it, though. By the barely tolerable 13th season and the marginally better 14th season, the show was hardly recognizable when compared to season 1. I agree with what you said about the characters changing over time -- they did, especially Val, and even Karen, who was always my favorite. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with you that the show was better in the earlier years, but I really don't think that the show was bad in the later years. It was still enjoyable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-43163934174056040362013-02-10T18:01:50.045-08:002013-02-10T18:01:50.045-08:00Thanks for the comment. Just out of curiosity, wh...Thanks for the comment. Just out of curiosity, which parts did you agree/disagree with the most? <br /><br />Even though it may not seem that way, I do love Knots Landing a lot, but I don't like the qualities of the show that I cited herein. I preferred the early years by far. Hill Placehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13557647078598242244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2675393718702467550.post-33067240133059821142013-02-10T17:54:34.028-08:002013-02-10T17:54:34.028-08:00I don't agree with you on all points (and you ...I don't agree with you on all points (and you do make good points but I am still a die hard KL fan for life), but I do agree with you on the most important...<br /><br />John Pleshette deserved barrels of Emmys for his portrayal of Richard Avery. miglethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02556964285766127972noreply@blogger.com